The Builders Summit Podcast #3

You're rejoicing because suffering is so great. You're rejoicing because the suffering is God's indicator to you through his decree from eternity past that you're one of his. So you rejoice in it. You thank him for it. The Godcast with Josh Fritz. Where the scripture is honored, the lost are warned, the saints are fortified, false teachers are exposed, and the Lord Jesus Christ is glorified.

Here's your host, Josh Fritz. Welcome to this edition of the Godcast with Josh Fritz. This is Josh Fritz. This is episode 112, episode 112, the third of the podcasts that were recorded at the Builder's Summit. It is now, we are now in December, nearly, almost a month away past the Builder's Summit. And at this hour, this is on a Saturday evening, I'm recording this intro to this podcast, a conversation I had with Michael Coghlan.

Really, really riveting conversation between him and I, and I thoroughly enjoyed the fellowship that we had there at the Builder's Summit. If you are not familiar with my YouTube channel or my Patreon or whatever that's connected to me there, if you want to consider supporting this ministry financially, you definitely can if you'd like. Again, though, I highly recommend that you support your local church.

That has always been the admonition from me to you. But you can find me on Patreon, The Godcast with Josh Fritz. And in addition to that, you can also find me on thebiblethumpingwingnut.com, of which I spoke to the Bible Thumping Wingnut guy himself. That is episode 111. And my pastor, I spoke to him in episode 110, Pastor Chris Pandolfi. So with that, here is that conversation I had.

It was recapping the night off of the session that Michael Coughlin had on steadfastness. It was his last session that he held, and thereafter we met and we sat and discussed that, and we enjoyed a time of fellowship. So with that, enjoy this half hour, if you may, if you will, rather, of us discussing what we've heard and what to take, what we can take back, or take from, rather, the Builder's Summit and what we'll probably do next year and the blessings of it as well.

So with that, here's the episode. We are here again at the Builder Summit, third year, 2021. I am here with another speaker from, actually the only speaker I'm speaking to actually, the other ones I did not ask. Well, I asked one, but it's one way to start the podcast. I am here with Michael Coghlan, who has come from Ohio, is a pastor, is also part of the Bible Thumping Wingnut Network.

Biblical Christianity's marketplace of ideas as I am looking at Tim Hurd who's just hopped off and now we have Michael Coughlin here. Thank you Michael Coughlin for joining the Godcast with Josh Fritzler, the first edition of having co-network partners joining on the program. I appreciate you for coming on and thank you. I want to let everybody know who you are and where do you stand and all of those things and I'll get into those questions as we go.

Awesome. I appreciate you asking me to be on here. And I do remember when Tim had me join the network, I got added to like a Facebook group that was just for the people that are the actual podcasters. And I kind of tossed out there, hey, does anybody want to get to know each other? And you were the first person, I think the only person, who I connected with through that message.

I've connected with other guys since. And so we've had kind of a sweet friendship from afar. We haven't talked probably as much as we both would like, but I've enjoyed just Marco Polo with you and how you always, I don't know you really well, but if you have a gift, it's the ability, no matter what the circumstance, to bring Scripture to the situation that clearly is God's revelation to us.

And you just, you bring a passage in conversations frequently that is always so appropriate. And it really, it just really impresses me how your thoughts are always on how do we get the Word of God here. I think the fact that you just said that actually ran something in my mind. Your last session that you spoke about on steadfastness, you were in James.

And in my breakout group before that, we were in James. I was reading the book of James in the beginning there. And just the fact that being joyous in trials is one of the things you were saying. And you actually opened something up in my mind to think that it's not just the giddiness that we would have in a trial. I know we're segwaying into that type of conversation, what you alluded to in your session that you held.

But it seems like the same scriptures that I was talking about with the men that I had in my group were the same ones that you were talking about in your session just now. Which just blew my mind in 2 Peter 1. We have all of those. We have everything that we need to live a life of godliness. And all of those virtues that are given to us because we are blood-bought saints by the Lord Jesus Christ.

We've been given that gift of salvation. And we have those virtues. Not because we developed them ourselves. We're told to work on them. But they been given to us by our relationship with Jesus Christ And they can be developed in such a way that allows us to help other men or allows us to really self ourselves whether you see we are in the faith as that text speaks to in making our calling and election sure in 2 Peter.

So I just want to thank you for that. And the providence is how I attribute that to God and how he aligns the scripture. And on top of that, I want to add, Matt Tarr was talking about Ephesians 4, and it just so happens in my local church, we're going through the book of Ephesians. In our Sunday school class, I'm teaching with somebody, and his text tomorrow will be that same text that he was on.

So I just find it remarkable how the Lord blesses me in that regard, that there's something that needs to be understood, that's sent from the Spirit of God, that needs to be etched into my mind and my heart and my soul to actually never forget it. So, in that regard, what have you seen, I'm shifting gears here, what have you seen in the last, compared to last year and this year, as far as the Builder's Summit is concerned? Like, have you seen a difference?

Have you seen a change? Or what would you expect out of a ministry like this? Well, I'm going to answer the question maybe a little differently than you meant to ask it. Sure. And that is that what I have seen, I haven't seen a change. Like last year was an 8 and this year is a 9.

Last year was fantastic. So I can't say, oh, this year is better. I think Tim organized some things better. But last year was just excellent. And so, but what I've seen both years is I've seen men who are hungry for discipleship. Amen.

And you get these men that come here and, like, I've been to a number of conferences in my life. And what happens at most conferences, and I wouldn't call this a conference. Right. But what happens at most of these conferences is you get a couple of maybe well-known speakers, and then people show up, and then inevitably what I've seen happen is half the people are outside talking and fellowshipping and doing other things when a man's preaching in the next room.

Because people aren't really there to hear preaching and to be taught and be discipled in that way. They think the conversation they're having in the hallway is just as providential and important as the man who's delivering God's word that he's been preparing for however many days or weeks at this point. And what I see here is a room full of men literally sitting at these little three-to-a-person tables, all eyes on the man preaching God's word.

Taking notes, turning pages in their Bibles, being exhorted, and actually wanting it. It's like they're hungry for something, and I don't mean this to be a negative thing on people's home churches, but I think a lot of people here are hungry for something they're not getting at their local church. And I have a lot of respect for local churches everywhere, but I think that, and this was me years ago, was I went to conferences because I was still hungry.

It was something I wasn't being fed. And I'm not just blaming the pastor. There were other men who weren't discipling me, who weren't coming alongside me and encouraging me and really teaching me the things that were fed here. I mean, we talked about this in our phone group. We're hearing things here that you hardly hear anywhere else. Austin's teaching today, I told him, what he taught today I had never heard before except maybe on a couple podcasts, the same concept.

Never heard a preacher from a pulpit teach what Austin explained so clearly today from the scripture about what men are responsible to do in regards to protecting other lives. So that to me is what I'm noticing is that there's a hunger. This is why I bothered Tim about having a Builder Summit in Ohio. Because, you know, we go eight hours west of where we are now.

We're going to be able to attract people who are 16 hours west of where we are now to have a second Builder Summit. Do the same thing and bring in speakers again, have the same types of activities, find a campground, and disciple more men who then should be able to go back and bring what they've learned to their local churches. I think I, it's a hearty amen coming from me to you on that, but the, I think the greatest blessing, I think, just in the last year is that I've been able to see that in my own local church, This idea of holding people accountable and asking for it and please hold me accountable.

I've heard somebody say in my local church and that goes out to my brother at the local church and wanting that to happen. And excuse me, I think it's been a blessing just to have that reaching out and saying, hey, discipleship is paramount to the future of the church. You want the young ones in the faith saved maybe weeks if not months. And the idea is really to come under the headship of Jesus Christ as a local church and then branch out and what are we supposed to do?

Make disciples. How do we do that? Well, we need to evangelize. Evangelism seems to be the great commission and what we understand in Matthew to tell us to go out and make disciples of all nations. And in my local church that like something that been being pushed and pushed in such a way that there are gifts that the men have in the church that want to develop that and come alongside to help anyone that hungering after truth and to harness that in such a way that they can be made not just to understand the doctrines which is one thing but to really be the one another Just carry out what we know, what we've been blessed with, having that gift of salvation, and realizing that there are others, that other sheep that we need to be shepherding, right?

Those that are here that are pastors, that's their role, is to shepherd and to come alongside and to help and to mend and to work with the people that are broken. And certainly it's seen in the way I've think and have you spoken, how Matt has spoken and how Austin has spoken. There's a shepherd's heart in how they're trying to reach us here at the Builder Summit.

And I've been privileged and blessed by it. And I think that we can definitely there is always a way to improve on this. And I just want to ask you also, do you see this as, of course, we see it as something that would continue, but perhaps other, you mentioned something earlier that brings to my mind, things that we're not addressing, perseverance and steadfast as you address that today.

Would there be something else perhaps that these quote-unquote conferences or men that get together, anything else that would be addressed as such that is maybe minimized, let's say, at a bigger level and it's not maximized enough? Yeah, before I answer the question, I really want to say I appreciate your comment because your comment goes to the heart of why we exist. And you talked about Ephesians 4.

Right before the passage, Matt was in, we see, and he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers. Why? Right? Why did he give them? That was Ephesians 4.11. To equip.

Well, now we're in verse 12. And you know the answer. I know you do. But this is what I tell my kids. When I ask you a question about a Bible verse, my kids have learned, okay, the answer is almost always in the next verse. Amen.

I'm trying to teach them to question what you read and then just read it. Get the answer. It says to equip who? The saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ until we attain to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God to mature manhood to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ so that we may no longer be children tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, Like craftiness and deceitful schemes.

Now, as you said, they're shepherds, and they're trying to equip the church to do the work of the ministry. So I think in the United States, we have fallen into the trap of believing the ministry is the minister's job. The pastor, the, you know, there's all sorts of different titles now people have invented at different churches. And instead, it's the pastor's job, and even at a conference like this, it's the speaker's jobs to build up the people who are listening that they may do the work that God's called them to do, and we all have a role to play in that.

And I will agree with you wholeheartedly that evangelism is one aspect of that, and I know there's different people gifted differently, but I think men in particular should be evangelistic. I'm not saying everyone should street preach. I think people should consult with their local church about whether that's something they ought to try. But we should all be evangelists.

We should all be, let me rephrase it. I'm not talking about the Ray Comfort type thing. Everyone's got to do what he did. But everyone who is a Christian should have the name of Jesus on their lips so frequently in praise and thanksgiving, ready to sing a hymn at any time, ready to talk about him, ready to praise him, and especially men ready to defend his honor and defend his name so that opportunities to evangelize are just natural.

Because you're at the store and someone says something nice to you and you say praise the Lord. You know, somebody does something kind for you and you say thank you and you give them a tract that tells them thank you and I want to also tell you about Jesus. He should be so close to us that it's just natural to evangelize. I love doing evangelism, but the fact that we have to plan outreach events is kind of a symptom of the larger problem.

It's not just our natural course of life to simply be proclaiming Christ everywhere we go. We're like married men who don't wear our wedding ring. But with the Lord, we kind of hide them under a bushel. We don't let our light shine. And so, and then to answer your question, I think that men are being challenged right now in our culture to go to recognize how worldly thinking, whatever it happens to be, whether it's the wokeness thing, whether it's feminism, and there's lots of different names out there of these things.

But ultimately it comes down to do not love the world or the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life are not from the Father but is from the world. And the world is passing away, right? We have been completely inundated with worldliness since we came out of the womb.

And I think to some extent we are ignorant of how much it affected us And I think our pride doesn want to admit that And when we're here, I feel like that's being opened up to us. And it's being exposed to me how my thinking is very much more like the world. I'm just talking about one or two areas. I don't want to sound like a worldly guy. It's been exposed to me how there's a couple areas where, yeah, I had compartmentalized something and thought it was just the way this is.

And over the weekend, there's been a couple things that have been exposed to me that, no, that's actually a worldly way to look at that. If I take that thought captive to obey Christ, I will actually behave differently or think differently about this now. And so it's been a real blessing to me. Everybody thinks the speakers come and they're like the gurus and they just teach.

It's like, no, we're being ministered to, and I just happen to have an hour and 30 minutes where I effectively shout Bible verses at people. I mean, that's what preaching is, right? So that's been such the blessing to me is how has worldliness infiltrated my mind in ways that I was blind to, and now I can repent of it. I think the world is an overwhelming influence that is, it's so much that we don't think biblically.

We need to think biblically and carry out those thoughts that are biblical to its completion rather than saying that's right. Well, why is it right? Why would it be right? What does Philippians say? Whatever is good, whatever is noble, whatever is just. All of those things that the scripture speaks to, we're to think on those things.

And you're absolutely right. I think the world has invaded so much of the church that the church has, and what I was saying in my group that I had been assigned to, we've been lulled to sleep in some respects that were, you know, what does Ephesians say? It's a wake up, O sleeper, you know. Let Christ shine on you. If I could interrupt you quickly, I was just going to say, How many passages in the New Testament speak directly to wake up, right?

Do not be asleep. I think the sleeping aspect, you know, is the fact that we take things for granted so easily. And that's when the devil goes, I have a ledge to grab, but I'm grabbing the table as we speak. And that's where the devil says, oh, I got that. And now I can take you down. And we're susceptible to the tricks, the fiery darts in which we just, we give up too easy and we don't stay in the fight.

And part of that is being about killing sin in our life. If one thing I could recommend right now in the middle of this podcast is check out the Bible Thumping Wing that Tim Hurd went through, I think, a few years ago. The mortification of sin and killing sin in your life. Check that out. That'd be something to check out as far as be about it every day.

In terms of seeing it in your own heart, repenting, confessing sin. And one thing actually that a brother of mine in the church I've known all my life, and we kind of went, when we left the one church, we got to this new church. The one thing that he said to me that we never did at the other church was to confess our sins to one another, that we may be healed.

And I mean, just that's just to think that verse through and to meditate on it, to chew on that verse to see we never really did that. And to see where how far the Lord can take us from that culture of thinking that's never done. Oh, we don't talk about that. You know, all those things to suppress everything down and push it down so we don't talk about those things.

They need to be talked about. They need to be in such a way. Not that you're airing every little inkling of your life. You can if you think that would help. But in order to address a problem that's in the room or the elephant in the room, you want to be clear of that and be free of it. We've been set free by our sin.

We've been set free from our sin, rather, in what Christ has done. And we need to think in a way that pleases God. I'm going to pause it. All right. Sorry about that. I had a little issue there.

But speaking in the realm of confessing our sins to one another and knowing that it should be done. It's not done enough. I think it's been the fact that we suppress everything that we know to be true and we say, well, we have to find out what's wrong with our own heart. And I was trying to drive the conversation a certain way and I don't know why I went this route.

But I know that the church has been lulled to sleep. The church needs to be awakened. And I think a conference like this or getting together like this will have the iron sharpened iron to make sure that I'm lacking in something. Perhaps you, yourself, Michael, can help me with something and vice versa, as you were saying before. So what would you say to that?

When you mentioned confessing sins, I think you are touching on one of the things that, like you asked me the question, what's something men need to do. Right. I think that that is a lost discipline. And I think that a few things happen. One is we are in our minds and in our own hearts, we're pharisaical because we have sometimes conquered the sin outwardly.

We've had victory over the various sins of the flesh, so we stopped stealing. We no longer look at pornography or masturbate. We have tried to be more honest in our dealings. And we have these outward righteousnesses and holiness that we have. And I think our pride wants us to think we've now conquered it. And then to admit to somebody that, yeah, you know what, I'm still a sinner.

This week I got angry with someone and I felt hatred in my heart for them. I blasphemed the Lord's name. And then somebody will say, well, what did you say? Oh, well, you know, I actually didn't say anything out loud, but I thought something that I know is impure and that I know is blasphemy. But because I didn't say it out loud, I tricked myself into thinking, well, I don't need to confess that.

And what that means is that deep down inside, I don't really want it to change. I'm not truly repentant. When I confess, that actually is an indicator that I'm actually repentant. The second aspect of confession that I think is really important, particularly with what I'm talking about, where you have sins that, I don't want to call them lesser sins, but I mean like to a lesser degree in the sense that they're maybe more internal and they're not manifesting because we do have some self-control in some of these areas.

I think that when we confess some of these things, it opens the door for other men to realize, oh, I can share also. And what I have found in my experience, and I'm not trying to be like a holier-than-thou guy, but I have gone to people I know and I've confessed sins I've committed in my heart that I knew according to Jesus Christ and the Sermon on the Mount. I am as sinful as if I'd done them outwardly in God's eyes, and I've confessed things to people, and then I've had them admit to me that they've committed the same type of sin, but maybe they're still doing it outwardly.

And it's opened the door for the fact that, no, we're all here fighting and seeking a Savior. None of us has arrived. Paul said he has not arrived, right? He is not attained. It's just about Christ. And so when we're able to be honest about the fact that, no, I'm still a sinner in need of forgiveness.

I still need to repent daily. That's actually when we can be healed. Amen. And I think along those lines, I actually, speaking of something personal, I'll share even on this to know that I come from a broken home. So the aspects of that are tremendous and the results of that can be and is catastrophic. But in the midst of all of that, I received a word of encouragement from the most unlikeliest source.

A man of the world actually put it through to me to remember, and I don't know where he stands with the Lord perhaps, I haven't seen him in a while. But he said to me, of all the trouble you would go through between your spouse, back and forth, all that struggle, it's not nothing like the Lord went to when he went to the cross for your sin. And I said well that makes me think of it in a different light other than the fact that yes we create our own messes at times if not all the time But for those messes the Lord bled and he died so that our sins wouldn be held against us No charges would be brought up against his elect as Romans 8 says So what came out of his mouth, he says, you say you're a Christian to me.

He says that to me. He says, you're a Christian. You would automatically want to think about what Jesus did when he went to the cross, wouldn't you? And I said, yeah. It just made, coming from the world, because the man is an avowed, you know, he's not a confessing believer or Christian in Jesus Christ, didn't, you know, never confessed to me and any of those things and never conveyed that to me, but for him to have that knowledge enough to say that made me said, wow, salvation is truly transformative as far as where we stand before God.

We are wretched people, unholy, vile. You can think of all the words to say before a holy God. And for somebody who does not really confess who Christ is, for those words to come out of his mouth made me think twice. I said, you know what? This isn't so bad in that regard, regarding the pain that was in my heart. I said, it's not so bad in that effect, but the Lord actually went to the cross.

And what we touched on earlier in Hebrews is the fact that he endured the cross, scorning its shame, I'm quoting from a different version, and endured such opposition from sinful men. And I think you can quote it better than me, but that scripture there, we're to consider Jesus Christ and to consider what he did. That pales in comparison to what we would ever come up with as far as, you know, it's our own fault for our sins, not his fault.

He went to the cross so that we would actually have that redemption that we can never work at ever to attain. And I think gathering that from that experience is a tremendous blessing to know that salvation is a great undertaking and that the Lord came from heaven, gave up of himself, died, bled on a cross for our sins, bore our sins on the tree so that our sins would not be held against us anymore. It's a great big price to pay.

I'm saying it simply that we land ourselves in trouble when we really shouldn't. And it makes us appreciate the fact that the Father would actually think about us and welcome us back after we've repented and confessed our sin before one another. We confess our sins to Him. And to have the attitude of David who knew in his heart he sinned against God, In the example with Bathsheba and in his sight, we're wretched people, but we have not a license to continue living that way.

Shall we live like this so that it's not going to honor God in any way to continue? It's to be at it, ever so at it in our own heart to confess our sin and to move forward and to not let us live in it any longer. We're not going to be like that. I guess in that respect what would you say to close this out as far as what is the gospel If somebody listening right now what would you say to perhaps what did these men talk about for this last half hour What is salvation?

What is the simple understanding perhaps of somebody on the street you would meet and doesn't know? What would you like to say to that? Yeah, at first I want to comment on one thing you said. Actually, the entire thing you said, what it made me think about was one form of worldliness that we have fallen victim to is that we think of ourselves as victims.

And so when we suffer, instead of realizing that we actually deserve far worse suffering than we ever experience, we think of ourselves as entitled to something better. In the Catechism, the Baptist Catechism, it says, All mankind by their fall lost communion with God, are under his wrath and curse, and so made liable to all miseries in this life, to death itself and to the pains of hell. But it's that phrase, we're made liable to all miseries in this life by our fall.

We have already earned eternal death and any miseries this cursed world brings upon us. So when, as Christians, we suffer and we start whining, what we're telling God is we think we deserve better. But God has already declared, no, you deserve worse. I've already promised you better because of Christ. And now you're going to whine about the fact that you're still going to suffer a little bit before you get glorified?

And so what we show is that we have a victim mentality where we think we deserve better than what we really deserve. And so when Christians can remember that every moment you are not in hell is already God's mercy upon you, The fact that you've been promised heaven and glory with God is beyond what would be allowed. If God left you in the cursed world forever, it would be better than what you deserve.

But he's promised something better. So now we get to the gospel. Jesus Christ is the only redeemer of God's people. And he became man and yet continues to be truly God. And so he is one person in two natures. God and man.

And Jesus Christ was born of a virgin so that those of us who fell in Adam can have a Savior who could basically translate us from our state of sin and misery that we're stuck in, that we also dove into willingly and decided we wanted to be in, in Adam. But we're stuck in this state of sin and misery. And he is willing, because of his redemption on the cross, because he made propitiation to the Father, satisfied the wrath of God upon sinners, satisfied that wrath upon himself.

Jesus Christ, because of that, offers to sinners that we could be effectively translated from the domain of darkness to the kingdom of his Son. We'd be taken from our estate of sin and misery into an estate of salvation. But the only way a sinner can be made right with God is for a proper sacrifice to be paid. And you and I don't have the perfection necessary.

So Jesus Christ became a man lived the perfect life that you and I could not live And one thing I like to share with people is he wasn Superman Jesus Christ was a man And he had the same infirmities we have He suffered all of the difficulties of life that we suffer, even worse probably because of his day and age he lived. Jesus was morally perfect, despite the fact that he was hungry, thirsty, and treated poorly, and he was surrounded by sinners. You know, you and I, it's our excuse, like, well, you know, we probably wouldn't have sinned except these other sinners were around and they enticed us.

Jesus was around sinners. He never once, even for a moment, in thought, word, or deed, violated God's law. And then he was delivered up by the predetermined counsel of God to Pontius Pilate. He was suffered and he died on the cross. He had false witnesses come against him. That's Psalm 144 today.

Right. False witnesses have spoken lies about me. Amen. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. You will be saved. And that's the hope we have for anyone listening right now.

Sure. And you don't have to be in a certain place. You don't have to be in a certain prayer position. You don't have to be facing east. Just call on the name of the Lord and he is able to save to the uttermost all those who are drawn near to God because he ever lives to save them. Because when he rose again, he doesn't die again.

He was raised and he shows that he has complete power over sin and death. And one day he will come again. And he is going to come in judgment. He already came once to save. He's going to come in judgment. And we don't know when that will be.

And so the warning, the exhortation right now is believe today. Do not harden your heart. Today is the day. And so that would be our great joy to hear that one of the listeners of this said, yeah, you know, today was the day. And it wasn't because of what I said. It's not because of what you said.

It has nothing to do with our personal holiness or what good guys we are. It's if you hear the word of God and believe it. And that's what we hope in. What a peaceful, what a peaceful joy that is to know our Savior and to know that, yes, one day we are here to glorify him. And that's the chief end of man is to glorify him and to enjoy him forever. And I look forward to that day when all of this is a mere distant vapor in the past as our life is like a vapor as the scripture says.

So with that, I want to thank you, Michael Coghlan, for joining me on this edition of the Godcast. Whatever number episode it's going to be, it's going to be on there soon eventually. Yeah, and it's like a crossover. I'll probably ask you for the recording and I'll put it on my Bia Berean.