A Calvinist and a Wesleyan Walk Onto a Campus

MichaelHey, how's it going, man? Oh, yeah? What do you like about Nicholas? Is he? I don't think he's... Nicholas is not an abolitionist. He's an Arminian gospel preacher. Are you thinking about Russell Hunter?

AndrewWho's the big abolitionist guy?

MichaelThat's Russell. Oh, is this upside down?

AndrewYeah, I'm sorry. Wow, this is a blooper. All good. No, it's very good.

MichaelYeah, this is Russell Hunter's website, abolitionistrising.com. I get him and Nicholas

Andrewbowling mixed up.

MichaelYeah, so yeah. Are you not Arminian? No, I'm not Arminian. No, you're Presbyterian? No, I'm Baptist, Reformed Baptist.

AndrewA Reformed Baptist Calvinist? Yes. I did, uh, give a degree in something

Michaelor? I mean, I have a bachelor's in mathematics,

Andrewnot that that's relevant. Are you a math teacher or? No, I'm a computer scientist. Oh, that's very cool. Do you work or teach or? I work for a company out of Columbus, headquartered in Columbus. But I'm friends with the abolitionist rising folks and bought their sign. So you were praying that Russell would come here? Yeah, I love Russell. He's a great

Michaelpreacher and evangelist. Yeah, I love talking to him. Yeah, I watched like probably 30 minutes of him today and 30 minutes yesterday. He's very clever and very... What's your name? It's Andrew. Andrew? You say Andrew? My name's Michael. My

Andrewmiddle name's Andrew. Oh, very cool.

MichaelAndrew Guss. And I thought, you know, I got to just start doing more Marion County evangelism and abolition work. I wanted

Andrewto try to get someone here because we

Michaelhave a ministry here on campus and we're kind of

Andrewshort staffed. But when you go into that building

Michaelthere and you go through those like double doors and you go in and you go to the left, there's a prayer box there if you're interested in praying a

Andrewprayer. So I'm actually, I mean, obviously I'm a Christian. You know, I do think abortion is murder. So, you know, it's

Michaelvery good that you guys are doing. And then I consider myself to be maybe Lutheran or Wesleyan. Okay. There's a couple of polar-ish opposites. I mean, they're not the most similar, but I definitely do think that, you know, communion is, you know, is means is. And I also think, you know, personal holiness is a good thing for a Christian to pursue. I wouldn't disagree with either of those. Yeah, very good. I just would disagree with the literalness of is means is. I see. Because Jesus is a door meant something too, right? Yeah, because

Andrewback then when Jesus said he was a door, it's because back then they didn't actually have doors to keep in the sheep's. He actually sat there. And so physically he was the door.

MichaelHe obviously meant a spiritual truth was his point.

AndrewLike he was the spiritual way and the spiritual door to heaven?

MichaelYeah, that's what he meant by it all. Yeah, I'm just saying he was also referring to the... He wasn't proclaiming himself to be a door. Oh, I understand,

AndrewI understand.

MichaelI'm not sure

Andrewif you can tell me, but back then, shepherds would actually lay in between an entrance to where sheep would stay. Sure. Acting as the door. So it's kind of both. He

Michaelsays, I am the door. I'm Alpha, Omega, Bright and Morning Star. He is a number of things that we know he's not literally. Yeah, the cornerstone. And I believe in personal holiness, too. Very good.

AndrewSo where do you go to church? I

Michaelgo to church at LaRue Baptist Church. You know where LaRue

Andrewis? Thank you.

MichaelSo what's your name? Andrew? Andrew, I want to, what is it? Andrew Schlecht. Schlecht, okay. I want to give you this card. Oh, yeah. Because this has my, a couple of my websites on it. My email address is on both of them. I'm Michael. If you go to the Heritage Restored one, that's the, so Heritage Restored is really our abolition ministry. We haven't made our own sign yet because we bought these from them. But you had said you wanted some help with some of the on-campus ministry stuff. Yeah, I'm a preacher. I'm a speaker. I could come and I could do devotions. I could do a talk to a large number of people on really any topic. I could do abolition. So I'd love to. I could even write down my number now or something, or I could put it in

Andrewyour phone. What's your phone number?

MichaelNo, I don't have a pencil.

AndrewOh, no, sorry. What's your phone number? I'm the one with pencils. Yeah, I'll tell you. I

Michaeljust, no, it's [phone number removed]. Go ahead and just send me a text. Just send me your name and then I'll reply with my full name. Coughlin, C-O-U-G-H-L-I-N.

AndrewIt's been a long way. L-I-N. Oh, I got that right. Yeah, you got it. Yep. That's it.

MichaelYeah, and then this is one of the things I've really wanted to do is I wanted to, because I go to campuses and preach like just in the open air. Nobody wants to hear it. If you actually had a group of Christians that would say, hey, we want to learn. We want to hear from this guy. More recently

Andrewon campus, we had a pizza with pastors. And so

Michaelwe had pizza and some pastors

Andrewand I guess a priest, but he's not really sacrificing anything.

MichaelIt wasn't a Catholic priest, was it? There's a Catholic and then there's a Lutheran. Okay, it's hard to tell the difference. You know, COACB TV. There's a Christian TV station here in town if you know. Oh, I've met him. Yeah, yeah. I love him to death. And there's John, not John, sorry,

AndrewDon. Oh my goodness. Oh, Don Alexander. He's a Baptist preacher. Okay.

MichaelYeah, but I'd love to come and I could talk to a group about abolition, especially there's, you know, the abolitionists rising. They've seen a number of students for abolition groups started on different campuses. So instead of Russell and his team going there with all the cameras.

AndrewOh, it was because I remember, I'm getting the two mics up, Nicholas Bolling was, was it Bolling or Boulding? Nicholas Bolling, he's an evangelist, he's got a popular YouTube. He was traveling, I think he was in Indiana recently, which I love his kind of go-getter mentality.

MichaelYeah, he's, he's, what's the word? What? He's bold, and he's not afraid, and he's unapologetic. Like,

Andrewhe doesn't change, he doesn't change because of the opposition. I just listen to Nicholas and because of my difference in some of the theological, I hear things that I don't like that he says. There's certain things I don't tell unbelievers.

MichaelWell, no, he'll tell people God loves you. And I don't tell people that. Because God demonstrated his love and that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. And so I think God's love is for his people. And I don't necessarily know if God loves that guy unless that guy's a Christian. Then I know God loves him. So I don't tell people God loves you. I don't think it helps anyone. I tell people God is love. That's what my card says. And that he sent his son in love. And he so loved the world that he sent his only son so that whosoever believes shall not perish but have everlasting life. So that's one of the things I don't like about what Nicholas, his message. Yeah. Kind of the God died for you thing. I don't believe God died for everybody. Do you? Yes. So you think Jesus died and paid for Judas' sins?

AndrewI mean, if Judas had betrayed Jesus, you know, Judas would have been forgiven. I guess that's the difference between the Arminians and the Calvinists.

MichaelYeah. One of the differences is Arminians would say Jesus atoned for everybody's sins, but it only applies to people who believe, right? Yes. And I would say Jesus died for the people he came to die for. He accomplished exactly what he set out to do, and he will not lose any that he died for. None that his father gave him. I think

Andrewwe're agreeing on the same thing, but in two different ways. Where I think a Christian believer can go to heaven, you also believe that a Christian believer can go to heaven. But I think the gospel and the grace we've been given is open to everyone. But it's only available to those who believe. Does that make sense?

MichaelWell, I mean, I know what you're saying. I think that God's grace is extended to his elect. God chose who was going to believe, and Jesus specifically paid for those people's sins, and everybody who dies in their sin and goes to hell, God will punish them, and he's not going to punish them after having punished Jesus. He punished Jesus for the people he's going to forgive, and everybody else will pay for their own. Whereas if I understand the Arminian view, Wesleyan view, it's more that Jesus paid for all of it. And it's almost like he gave you a check and you got to write your name on the back to cash it in, but it's already paid for. So how do you know you're elect? You work out your election with fear and trembling, right? You work out your salvation with fear and trembling. You make your calling and election sure, like 2 Peter chapter 1 says, you know, Add to your faith virtue and to virtue perseverance and steadfastness and self-control and all these things. And so you live a life of faith in Christ, right? The life I now live, I live not in the flesh, but by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. So as you continuously grow, you just know, like, I'm saved. I believe. So what's less important is calling myself elect as just saying, I believe, I know I'm one of his children. That's very

Andrewgood. I think we truly believe in the same thing. It's just that, you know, different name. Like, I think an unbeliever can become a believer. I think a believer can become an unbeliever.

MichaelI don't think a believer can become an unbeliever. A true believer. Because they're never saved. Yeah. A true believer. Yeah. But I do believe that there are people that are believers who will walk, you know, oh, Judas. I mean, Judas was a believer. Yeah. And now he's not. But I don't believe Judas ever truly had a heart regeneration. He was never born again of the spirit indwelt by a Holy Spirit who couldn't leave him.

AndrewYeah, I see that. No, definitely. I think truly, I don't think, let's try not to polarize ourselves. I think we truly believe in the same thing. It's just a different term. I don't know, but we can talk more about it. Sure. Oh, yeah, for sure. And then, do you believe in any, or do you follow any universities' idea of Reformed Baptism in particular? Sorry, not Reformed Baptism, but Reformed Baptists in particular?

MichaelI follow what is commonly called the 1689. Okay. So if you go to my website, confess.catechize.ing, I could, yeah, it's, it's. Sorry.

AndrewYeah, it's okay. I could have you look it up right now.

MichaelConfess.catechize.ing. I-N-G. I-O. Yep. There you go. It's hard to say. I see. So if you read the London Baptist

AndrewConfession of Faith, that is what I would hold to. So if you read that and you understand what it's saying, you will get a pretty good idea of what I believe. I will definitely take a look at this. And then I've got the whole Bible on there. You can listen to it while you're reading it. I've got several, I've got tons of resources on there, all free. So

Michaelthat's one of my websites, too. Very

Andrewgood. And then, I don't know if you're really a Cedarville Reformed Baptist.

MichaelNo. So I would be like a 1689 Covenantal Reformed Baptist. So Cedarville would be what's called dispensational, which is not Lutheran. Yeah. Right. And so you'd be more Covenantal. Oh, no, no. I just have some Cedarville friends. Sure, sure. I do, too. My current pastor, Cedarville grad.

AndrewInteresting place.

MichaelYeah, I was actually at the hospital yesterday with my friend who was getting surgery, and his pastor came, and his pastor graduated from Cedarville, and we talked for a while.

AndrewWhere does LaRue Baptist look? You go to LaRue Baptist?

MichaelYeah, right in the middle of LaRue, right by the train tracks. Okay.

AndrewLaRue's a really small place, and there's like a Baptist church and a Methodist church, And then there's a fire station, train tracks, and then the little row that has a few stores. Oh, you were there this year?

MichaelOkay, because I've been there the last three years with the table evangelizing. I was on the far end this year, right by where the roadblock was. Gotcha,

Andrewyeah. The previous year, my professor was showing off his steam, or no, his friend's steam engine. Oh, I was there, yeah. What's his name? Jeremy Fryman. The professor or the... My professor's name, or he used to be my professor, he used to teach at MTC. His name's Jeremy Fryman now, he teaches I think at Elgin.

MichaelBut is he the guy with the steam engine or is he his friend? His friend with the steam engine. Okay, because the guy with the steam engine was my pastor's neighbor. Oh. So he introduced me to him. He's got like the long white beard. He... No. Eh, maybe it was a different guy. Maybe lamb chops. Okay, maybe it was lamb chops then, yeah. It's a small enough thing. I saw everybody, but. It's a good place to go. What are you doing Saturday? Saturday. You should come all the way to LARUE. We're having our LARUE community meal. It's from 2 to 6. I might have to be there. If you come Saturday, man, get some free food and you can talk to people. Nice, very good. So definitely check

Andrewout the prayer box. Okay. It's legit. As you walk in and to the left, it's definitely a box with some prayers and we'll pray for

Michaelyou. Put something in there? Okay. Awesome. Yeah, let me know if you want me to come back. Yes, I'll keep you posted. Thank you, Michael. Yeah, bless you, man. Coughlin? Yeah, Michael Coughlin. Very good. Okay, best of luck. See you later. Yeah. See